tv Erin Burnett Out Front CNN July 18, 2013 11:00pm-12:01am PDT
the future. lost a son. at the end of the day for sybrina fulton and tracy martin and the parents of trayvon martin, it's that simple and sad. the jury's decision may add to the burden, the country taking up the debate will ease it a little but nothing changes the ache of absence, the ache all parents after losing a child. few parents see their child as a predator or have so many people define him to fit their agenda, whatever that agenda may be. so tonight, as we talk about all the greater implications of death of trayvon martin, we don't want to lose sight of the simple fact that a mother and father have lost a son. joining me now is sybrina fulton, tracy martin and benjamin crump. thank you for being with us. first of all, how are you holding up? >> it's difficult but i'm taking one day at a time. it's difficult. >> tracy, for you?
>> it's tough. we just trying to stay strong. we understand that we have to stay strong for each other, our families and we'll continue to take it one day at a time. >> you were there in the trial every day, and at times you had to leave because of some of the testimony was too hard to hear, but were there days where you just thought i can't -- i can't go there today? or i can't do this? >> no, i've never thought that. every morning i got up with trayvon in mind and i said, i have to do this. i have to go. i have to just with stand just -- just the trial process, so i made myself go. it was no doubt in my mind that i needed to be there. there were times not necessarily the testimony but a lot more the pictures for me, the 911 call where it just seemed so final.
the pictures that the medical examiners, the pictures at the site, those things were more hurtful to me and sometimes i could sit through it, and at times i just needed to just go by myself and just say a prayer and ask god to strengthen me because it -- it was very difficult. >> what did you -- what did you hope the message of you -- of you both being there for your son during that trial, did you hope that it would send a message to the jury? did you hope that it would send a message to all those watching? >> the most important purpose was to give trayvon a voice because he's, he's not here to say anything for himself.
so we thought in our minds that we needed to be there to represent him, to show a face with trayvon martin's name. okay, these are the parents and this is the family. these are the attorneys. so we, we just felt it was important that we be there just to represent him. >> and were there times sitting there hearing other people talk about your son, whether they were friends of your son or people who didn't know him or people for the defense, were there times when you just thought, i don't know who they
are talking about? that's not my son. >> there was a lot of times during the court proceedings we said to ourself that wasn't the trayvon we raised. that wasn't the trayvon that we loved. we felt as though they were just mischaracterizing him, and we know that wasn't the trayvon that we raised. >> were there -- to be in a courtroom with the man that killed your son, did he ever say anything to you or look at you or was there ever any kind of eye contact exchange? >> never. we refrained from even looking his way. we didn't want our emotions to run high because we knew that our son's legacy was -- is lying in our hands. we are the face of trayvon.
the jury -- that courtroom, we needed to be in the courtroom to let the court see that we were trayvon. he wasn't there to defend his self-to tell his side of the story but we wanted to ensure them we were there 110% for him. >> when i talked to daryl parks one day, one of your attorneys and he said y'all talked ahead of time about not being there the day the verdict came down. why did you not want to be there on that day, and how did you actually hear about the verdict? >> we didn't want to be there because we were told by the court system that there were -- you couldn't do anything outbursts. you couldn't say anything. you couldn't have any reaction. and we thought that was going to be pretty difficult for us either way. through our attorney's advice, they told us, they suggested to us that we not be there, and we kind of weighed both sides and said maybe this not a good thing for us to be there because either way, we -- how could you be quiet? how could you not say anything? how could you not show any emotions? so i think by us not being there, it took the sting out of people seeing us react to it because it literally broke us down.
>> when you heard the verdict on television, you broke down? >> yes, yes. >> how could you not, i guess? did it come as a, as a total shock? i mean, there were some legal analysts watching the trial that thought the prosecution wasn't presenting the case like some of the analysts wanted them to or felt they could have presented it. did it come just as a complete shock? >> it came as a complete shock for me, and the reason i say that is because i just look at people as people, and i thought for sure that the jury looked at trayvon as an average teenager that was minding his own business, that wasn't committing any crime, that was coming home from the store and was feet from where he was actually going, and i just believed that they realized that, but when i heard the verdict, i kind of understand the disconnect and that maybe they didn't see trayvon as their son. they didn't see trayvon as a teenager. they didn't see trayvon as just a human being that was minding his own business. >> when, when it was six women selected, most of them, nearly all of them mothers, you felt
the fact that they are mothers, they might understand some of your pain, they might understand what it's like to have a son? is that what you're saying? >> i just looked at them as people. i'm not saying because they were mothers i assumed they would say he was guilty, but i just thought the human side of them, the human side of them would say listen, this was a kid. this guy made a mistake. this wasn't a burglar, and just for them to suggest that he was a burglar or that by any means he was doing, committing any crime is not true. it's absolutely not true. >> when mark car goes, the legal analyst, he felt when the jury was selected, he thought the trial was over then. did you have any concern, tracy, the makeup of the jury.
no african americans, i looked at one study from 2000 to 2010 that all white juries convict black defendants 16% more often than a white defendant and if there is one african american on that jury, it's about equal then, that discrepancy goes down. did you have any concerns along those lines? >> i didn't have any concerns about it because we thought that there was enough evidence there, no matter who was on that jury to convict him of second-degree murder. and when you think about it, i think that they just took into account what george zimmerman said was the truth. trayvon wasn't here to tell his story, but the mind set of that juror, some of then had their minds made up, no matter what story was told.
>> ben? >> i'll say we've always said this was going to be a witness test on how far we have come in equal justice because you want to believe no matter with who is on a jury that the victim, whoever they may be, can get a fair trial, and we were hoping for that, but as mr. martin was eluding to, they never saw trayvon's perspective. they never looked -- when you listen to the person you interviewed, they always looked at it from the adult perspective. they never looked at it from a child perspective, trying to get home running with objective evidence and that trayvon was defending his life. he went to his grave not knowing who this creepy strange man was. >> we got to take a quick break. when we come back, i want to talk more about what the jury perceived. as you know, i interviewed juror b-37. i'll play a few of the things she said and have you respond to
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she said she had a clear picture of george zimmerman but a hazy one of trayvon. you call george zimmerman george, do you feel like you know him? >> i do. i feel like i know everybody. >> you called trayvon, trayvon. >> trayvon wasn't as well-known by us because there wasn't as much said about him. all we really heard about trayvon was the phone call that he had and the evidence they had found on him. we basically had no information, what kind of a boy trayvon was, what he did. we knew where he went to school and that was pretty much about it, and he lived in miami. that's pretty much all the information we knew about him. >> i'm back with trayvon's parents and their attorney benjamin crump. when you hear from this juror and i assume most of the other jurors, they feel they didn't know your son at the end of hear thing evidence, that has to be
difficult to hear. >> i think they knew trayvon was 17 years old. they heard that during the trial. it's a lot of things that were not said about trayvon during the trial. but you -- they knew that he was a teenager. they knew that he was on his way home. they knew that he had went to the store. they knew that he ran. they knew that he felt that george zimmerman was creepy. so there are some things they did know about trayvon. they may didn't understand why he didn't go home, well, if someone is following me in a vehicle and following me on foot, i wouldn't go home, other. so there are some things that they know about teenagers in general even without specifically saying well, trayvon was a little playful. trayvon likes to be around kids. trayvon is more affection. they knew that trayvon was a
teenager, he just turned 17, he was 16 years and 21 days and that was stated by the prosecution at the trial. so they knew exactly how old he was. >> you felt they knew enough -- >> i felt -- >> related to this crime. >> i felt they knew enough. they knew he had gone to the store. they knew that he had purchased some items from the store, which was the drink and candy. how much do you need to know? >> ben, do you think it would have made a difference if the jury, i don't know, if sympathized is the right word or felt they connected with him. clearly, she feels she knew what was in george zimmerman's heart. she said that in the interview, his heart was in the right place. it seems she didn't understand
or know she felt enough about trayvon martin. >> well, i've heard sunny hostin and mark geragos on your show and looking through the prison -- prism and evaluate people. she said in their community, they and she almost said like they were from a different world. and that's what you hope wouldn't happen, but unfortunately with that verdict, it suggests they were from a different world because -- sybrina said, if this was one of their children, five of them had children, what would they say about their child running from a strange person and minutes later there is a bullet in his heart? do you think they would see the
acts of the adult as being culpable or as they did in your interview and say it was trayvon's fault for not getting home? >> in fact, what you mentioned, what the juror said, i want to play that for our viewers because it was in relation to rachel jeantel, trayvon's friend who testified and again, this juror didn't feel that she connected, i guess, with -- with that witness, and rachel was one of the few witnesses who was a friend of trayvon martin who could talk about him and talk about what they were talking about on the phone in those final moments. let's play what she said. >> so the term creepy ass cracker that rachel jeantel said he had used, you're saying that simply is how trayvon and rachel talk to each other? >> sure, that's the way they talk. >> and did you see that as a negative statement or a racial statement as the defense suggested? >> i don't think it's really racial. i think it's just everyday life, the type of life that they live and how they are living in the
environment that they are living in. >> so you didn't find her credible as a witness? >> no. >> i got an enormous amount of tweets from viewers that watch that interview and overwhelming, they were, the people tweeting me were saying there were an awful lot of theys in that statement, they, they and the viewers weren't sure whether she was referencing they trayvon and rachel jeantel or they african americans in general. i'm wondering as you hear that what do you think? >> i think it speaks for itself. she's -- she definitely has a disconnect. she's not saying that's the way teenagers talk in our community. she's saying in their community that's the way they talk. >> different from her community. >> different from her community, so she evers sure it was a accept brett community that she was speaking about.
>> there's one other thing that she said, they clear -- and you referenced this. the jury, she, clearly bought the defense's argument about what happened. i asked her about that animation that the defense put on in the closing argument and she said she believes that was pretty accurate, and even though no one actually finally saw what was happening, that was just based on the defense's. so she bought into the idea that trayvon martin threw the first punch. i just want to listen a little bit what she said. >> i think the roles changed. i think -- i think george got in a little bit too deep, which he shouldn't have been there, but trayvon decided that he wasn't going to let him scar him and get the one over up on him and i think trayvon got mad and attacked him. >> do you think trayvon martin played a role in his own death, that this wasn't just something that happened to him, this is something he also -- >> oh, i believe he played a huge role in his death.
>> does it surprise you how much the jury seemed to agree with the defense's version of events? >> my answer to that would be what if it was their child that was murdered, that was shot in the heart? would they feel as though it was their child's blame, to blame for their death? i think that was a very insensitive statement coming from her, but then again, we see that she likes separating herself by saying they, they, they, so from the beginning of the trial, she had her mind made up. >> you believe she had her mind made up from the beginning of the trial? >> no doubt. no doubt. >> i think a lot of people are surprised that once this trial is done, george zimmerman obviously, is a freeman. he gets his gun back. when you heard that, what did you think?
>> that's troubling. >> did you know that was going to happen? i didn't even think about that. >> i didn't know it was going to happen, but that's very troubling, and it's troubling because he made a statement that if he had to do it all over again he wouldn't change anything, so coupling that with the fact that he's receiving a firearm back, that's very trouble some. >> in the town hall we did on race and justice in this country and there was a man named charles blow and one of the things he said to me the other day and one of the things he said to me, he said i've always told my sons don't run when the police are around because you don't want to be viewed as suspicious and now i feel i have
to tell them don't walk too slow because -- and charles blow asked the question what is the speed with which an african american male should walk to not be suspicious and to have that conversation with your child i found stunning. when we come back, we'll talk a little bit about what people should tell their kids now, and what you would recommend people tell their kids now about something like that. we'll be right back. you make a great team.
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are we in trouble? no, you're not in trouble. i just want to set some ground rules. like what? well, remember last week, when you hit vinnie in the head with a shovel? [chuckling] i do not recall that. of course not. well, it was pretty graphic. too graphic for the kids. so i'm going to have to block you. you know, i gotta make this up to you. this is vinnie's watch, and i want you to have it. you deserve it. no, thank you. t@at's really not necessary. no, no, come here...
american parents and the fact i have to say it's african american parents that have to have that conversation with their child as opposed to caucasian parents is -- parents is a troubling thought. eric holder talked about it. >> trayvon martin's death caused me to sit down to have a conversation with my own 15-year-old son like my dad did with me. this was a father-son tradition i hoped would not need to be handed down, but as a father who loves his son and who is more knowing in the ways of the world, i had to do this to protect my boy. i am his father, and it is my responsibility not to burden him with the baggage of eras long
gone but the world he must still confront. >> we've been discussing what parents tell their kids about trayvon martin here on this program with jeffrey canada and charles blow. listen. >> i used to tell my boys, don't run because they would think they are suspicious and now i say don't walk slowly because that also means you're suspicious. we to figure what is the pace a black man can walk in america and be beyond suspicion. >> there is a group of folks sitting here saying what do we do about this? how do we prepare kids to grow up to be a man but under these circumstances you have to act like it's 50 years ago, right? that's not where we want to go in this country. >> back again with tracy martin, sybrina fulton and benjamin crump. is this a conversation you had with trayvon, you've had with your other son? >> yes, definitely. by us living in a diverse community, diversified community, we really don't have
to have the conversation where you have to be afraid of every different race because they go to school, they grew up going to school with other nationalities, so the conversation that you have -- that we have is, you know, we try to prepare them to become teenagers, to become up standing citizens and how to conduct themselves in public, but when you have a situation such as an unarm teen getting shot in the heart for doing absolutely nothing, you know, you have to -- you have to say to yourself what is it that i can tell my child now? what kind of conversation do i
tell him as far as going outside and conducting himself? >> and it's not just about police, it's about unidentified neighborhood watch people or unidentified security guards. what do you tell parents? what would you tell parents out there? >> that's a very difficult subject for me because my older son, he likes to go out with his friends. he likes to go to the movies and things like that. i'm very afraid right now because i have no clue what to tell him. i have no clue if i should tell him to run or walk, if i should tell him to defend his self or lay there. i have no clue what to tell him and also about the laws. we need to deal with the laws, as well, because my son was unarmed and the person that shot and killed him got away with murder. >> anderson, if i can say, it does lead to a larger
conversation. part of the -- a big part of law is notice. i think with the tragedy of trayvon's martin's shooting put everybody on notice. are policemen going to do better and neighborhood watch going to do better and is the society going to do better? will we progress from this where it doesn't happen again because sabrina and tracy say we can't brink trayvon back but we're worried about the next trayvon unknown. >> you have teenage sons, what do you tell them? have you had that conversation? >> i've had that conversation and we continue to have it. sunny hostin said something profound, that was profound when she said her son said what did trayvon do wrong? why was he afraid of trayvon? that's what i tell my boys it's so hard to be yourself because
everybody looks at you through their eyes, and i -- i remember telling them if the police stop them, you tell the police i'm putting my hands up, sir, and you have to say that because when it's us, and i do a lot of civil rights, our children get killed in some of the post unbelievable ways and when little black and brown boys get killed. it's a cliche. nobody says a word. when we started trayvon's case we couldn't get anybody to cover the story and we weren't talking about race because we thought it was outrageous. you had a neighborhood watch volunteer with a gun kill an unarmed child -- >> it's interesting because i think in white communities, there is this inher rant sense of privilege that the police are there to help you and, you know, talking to jeffrey cannon just the other day and talking to you, that assumption is not
there in the african american community n many parts. >> absolutely and the conversation evolves. as sybrina says we have to take something negative and find something positive. we have to ask the department of justice can little black and brown boys walk down the street and not have private citizens with guns profile and follow them and confront them because we need to know the law because we need to know what to tell our children, and if that is not the law, then the killer of trayvon martin should be held accountable for violating his civil rights. because he had every legal right to walk down that neighborhood sidewalk and not be profiled and confronted. >> yet, as you know, the juror b-37 and i'm assuming other jurors as well didn't discuss race in the jury room. she clearly does not believe that race played any role in the profiling of trayvon martin at
any level in this case. let's play that. do you feel that george zimmerman racially profiled trayvon martin? do you think race played a role in his decision, his view of trayvon martin as suspicious? >> i don't think he did. i think circumstances caused george to think he might be robber or trying to do something bad in the neighborhood because of all that had gone on previously. there were unbelievable number of robberies in the neighborhood. >> so you don't believe race played a role in this case? >> i don't think it did. i think if, if there was another person, spanish, white, asian, if they came in the same situation they were trayvon was, i think george would have reacted the exact same way. >> what do you think of that? >> i think that's a joke. because he clearly said in the 911 call that it was a black teenager, an african american teenager, so that was the
profile. that was the person he was looking for because that was the person or people that were breaking in in the area. unfortunately, trayvon was not one of those people. trayvon had every right to be in that community. trayvon had every right to go to the store and come back in peace and safe. so i think that's really a joke. i don't understand why she wouldn't see that, but then again, there's the disconnect. there's definitely a disconnect. >> and anderson, i was going to simply say that you don't have to deal with the issue. that's the troubling part. you have to look at defense strategy. they put the witness up who said her house had been burglarize so it all -- it was almost suggested that the neighborhood watch had a right to stop every black teenage there walked in his neighborhood and are we going to ever people based on the acts of a few, say the whole
black male race can be profiled or if you have a white male do something, are we now going to say you can indict them? it's really different when you have a caucasian do something. nobody says that's how all them are. >> do you think that -- i don't want to put you on the spot about prosecution and stuff because i know you're thankful that it was brought to trial but do you think race was not mentioned in this trial and prosecutors went out of their way to say race was not part of this? do you think that was a mistake or strategy? >> anderson, i thought that when we brought the case because most prosecutors wouldn't have brought the case and i thought they got to the heart of the
matter. lawyers have different strategies. in fact, it was the defense they responded. it's interesting now because in the civil rights case, we do get to look directly at race which was not addressed in the state case, so it's somewhere where they minute for bad and minute for good, nobody can say we addressed race in the trial so it should be the department of justice should reference. >> when mark o'mara said after the trial was done in the press conference, if george zimmerman had been black, african american, this would have never been brought to trial. do you think if george zimmerman had been black he would be allowed to go free after shooting somebody? >> absolutely not. that's ridiculous. you can go to any courtroom in america, anderson, and don't take my word for it.
go sit in the back of any courtroom in america and watch how justice and i believe if the roles were reversed and trayvon martin shot george zimmerman, he would have been arrested right there on the spot, hour one, minute one, second one if he wasn't shot. because when a black man has a gun, it's a different ball game. george zimmerman had a gun and we saw how he was in the police station, it was almost as if not only did he profile trayvon martin but the police profiled him, too. they always took his perspective, never once seemed like did anybody take the dead kid on the ground's perspective. >> there is another case, a woman named marissa alexander, her husband was abusive to her, she shot a warning shot and argued stand your ground and she got sent to jail after the jury
deliberated for 12 minutes for 20 years for firing a warning shot. they didn't grant her stand your ground. >> that's why the town hall meeting that you had, anderson, an your show was so important. we have to talk about these things because when certain people in the community keep saying there's so much inequity in the way the justice system treats us you say, we stop believing. >> it's interesting though, i think in a lot of communities, white communities, people roll their eyes and think we've moved beyond this and it's -- it's unfortunate that this conversation is often one-sided. it often coming from african americans. it's not engaged with all communities. >> that's the beauty with the martins and how they represent themself on behalf of their son. it's making us have this
conversation. some people say we can think of reasons why we won't talk about it. let blame the victim, let's blame trayvon but you look at it as a parent who cares about children and the young people, you say we can't have this happen to another young person and i think that's what they -- >> we're going to take one more break and i want to talk a little bit about the legacy and work that you both are doing to keep trayvon's memory alive and also to try to change some laws. we'll be right back. all business purchases. so you can capture your receipts, and manage them online with jot, the latest app from ink. so you can spend less time doing paperwork. and more time doing paperwork. ink from chase. so you can.
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back now with tracy hearten, -- tracy martin, sybrina fulton and benjamin crump. what do you hope changes now. what change do you hope to effect? >> we hope the laws, we want to ever sure that any teenager walking down the street can feel safe, that they won't be killed and that they will ever it home safely. another thing we hope to accomplish through the foundation is to connect families that are victims of senseless gun violence. so we, through our foundation will reach through other
families hurting like we are. we want to connect with them and empower them and help them motivate themselves and encourage themselves and so that they can move on and have protective lives because this takes a lot out of you. >> you must feel connected to so many others who have lost their children. >> yes, we do. we do. and through the foundation, also, through change in the laws, we want to have a mentoring program. we going to have different pastors like come on the line, on a conference call and pray for these families to strengthen them because these times are very difficult and you are hurting and have no idea what to do. we want to connect them with at least legal advice to give them some sort of direction. we had parks and crump and i thank god for them but some
people have no clue what to do when something happens to somebody in their family that have no clue what to do. we had good direction. we were able to, you know, move on from what was happening through the parks and crump team. >> do you believe the system works? haven't you -- you've had this horrific experience and seen the justice system up close. do you believe it works? >> well, we have faith in the system but it's -- it also goes back to what you have to work with, and for me and our case, we just felt as though, that the state did all they could do with what they had. had it been investigated properly from the beginning, it would have been more overwhelming evidence. do the system work? it didn't work for us, but we remain prayerful that the system -- through this injustice that we can build some type of -- we can close that gap and
hopefully that the system can start working for everyone equally. >> and you're hoping civil rights charges are filed, obviously? >> yes, but a bigger message, anderson. the precedence is a terrible one this case sets, that you can be the aggressor, you can inniche nate the confrontation. all the evidence says he runs away and minutes later he was shot in the heart and the killer says was standing my ground and gets to walk free. the next minority killed, what do you think they will do? what do you think the killer will say? >> have you -- you have strong faith and from day one you've talked about that. has there been at any moment
during this that you doubted your faith, that made you question it? >> never, never. the only thing i question is why we were selected as opposed to another family, but i've gotten over those questions. i've gotten over that. i feel like he selected the right family. god wanted us to be the spokesperson, so we're being ocho bead yenlt of what we need to do and what god is leading us to do. hopefully, we can find some positive, some bright side out of this. >> your strength is amazing through this and the face of this and continues to be. thank you very much for talking to us tonight. >> thank you, anderson. >> we will take a quick break and get reaction from our panelist when we come back. vo: getting your car serviced at meineke, smart. saving time by booking an appointment online, even smarter. online scheduling. available now at meineke.com.
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website, as well. i want to get reaction from our panel. just mark, your thoughts on the conversation? >> i watch these things from others cases. i never understand how people, you know, having a son about the same age, i don't understand how anybody ever deals with this, so it's just tough to follow and comment on. as a parent, to me, it's just unimaginable and i'm happy, i guess, if happy is the right word that they are channelling it into a foundation and i think that's a great thing. i just don't know how else you cope with things like this. the trial aside, the loss of a kid, of your kid, i just think i don't know how a parent ever gets over that. >> sunny? >> yeah, i mean, what i think is remarkable is we see what a remarkable family is this is. this is a family of grace and dignity and a faith and that was
apparent throughout the trial and now. i think what was interesting is that they still believe in the justice system. they say that the justice system may not have worked for them but they still believe in it, and i think that's a message to everyone. i wonder what does justice look like to them going forward. will they get justice through the federal government? will they get justice through the foundation? i think now we have to redefine what justice is. >> i thought it was interesting sybrina fulton saying that the jury knew enough of the important things about their son to reach a verdict, and clearly, the jury that i've talked to felt she didn't have a connection or understanding of -- of him as much as she did george zimmerman. >> you know, i -- the rules of evidence are about a very specific thing. the courtroom, that's not how human beings interact in a normal way. when we ask what people are like, when we saw rachel jeantel being interviewed by piers
morgan we said this is a completely full different person and that's how it always works in trials, you get a very narrow slice of the facts present in a courtroom, but people who actually know the people involved, always say gosh, but it's so limited. it's so incomplete. >> i think -- although i think there was a missed opportunity here for the prosecution -- >> wow. >> because -- >> wow. hello? that's you? >> yes, because as a prosecutor, you always put the victim in the courtroom. you always breathe life into the verdict and show the jury who the victim is and -- >> without being sarcastic, is that criticism of the prosecution coming from sunny? >> it is. it is. >> mark, you believed this case was over and i talked about this with the family, you thought the case was over when the jury
selected. >> absolutely. you know what i forgot and have not mentioned but talking with o'mara and west yesterday, the prosecution used one of their preemptory charges on an african american, that supports my theory, jeff will cackle, it supports my theory they threw the case -- >> that's not accurate. >> did they use a preemptory challenge -- >> you can't say they threw the case, that's ridiculous. >> can i ask one question. will you answer this for me? >> no. >> you won't? >> no. >> their pretext is he was a fox news watcher. if that is true, then that supports my theory and i know everybody says it's fanciful that they threw the case. >> i don't think they threw the case. one of the problems they have with these discussions about race and juries is that it leads to the assumption that every black men holds exactly the same views about everything -- maybe the prosecution was right to
though -- >> can i tell you something. >> clearance thomas is a black person as well as thorough good marshall was a -- >> anderson brought up yesterday, i believe, a very good study that was done. >> that is a very good study. >> the presence of one african american juror evers the deference in terms on how -- >> right. >> you can talk about clearance thomas or anybody else. what happens is if you're in a jury room and there is six people, if you're in any room and there is six people and there is a presence of one african american, somebody is going to give voice to the idea that rachel jeantel is not as un -- you know, the word unrelatable as i think -- >> that horrifies me, though. i reject the notion -- i know it horrifies you. >> we got to wrap it up. that does it for this edition of 360. thanks for watching. "piers morgan live" is coming up after the break. ♪ ♪ honey, is he too into this car thing? [ mumbling ] definitely the quattro.
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this is "piers morgan live." welcome to our viewers in the united states and around the world. tonight you heard what trayvon martin's parents just told anderson cooper. >> it came as a complete shock to me, and the reason i say that is because i just look at people as people, and i thought for sure that the jury looked at trayvon as an average teenager that was minding his own business, that wasn't committing any crime, that was coming home from the store and were feet away from where he was actually going, and i just believe that they realized that, but when i